EA vs rats vs post rats vs EA adjacent
These are loose distinctions, based on my experience.
- EAs are people and orgs motivated by using reason and evidence to improve the world. At least thats what the initial motivation was.
- Exemplified by people like Peter Singer and Will MacAskill.
- Orgs: CEA, Open Philanthropy, now Coefficient Giving.
- Rats, aka rationalists, are folks mainly hanging around forums such as LessWrong, Slate Star Codex, and Overcoming Bias.
- Salient people: Eliezer Yudkowsky, Robin Hanson, Zvi, Gwern, etc.
- Rats were early to discuss modern AI alignment and its consequences. There is overlap with the older singularity and Extropian mailing-list circles.
- LessWrong grew out of Overcoming Bias.
- Post rats: TPOT (this part of Twitter) and some older rat folks who seem relatively enlightened to me.
- They were usually rats themselves at some point, then took a more pragmatic or spiritual approach.
- Part of that comes from learning the limits and perils of the epistemic and instrumental rationality espoused by rats.
- TPOT is a loose social label too. I wouldnt treat everyone around it as a post rat.
- EA adjacent: ex-EA folks, or those who sympathise with EA but do not identify as one.
From my experience, P(EA | rat) >= P(rat | EA), because EA seems to have a higher base rate than rats. I havent counted this. Post rats seem to be an even smaller minority.
What is my stance on EA?
- I want to distinguish the people from the institutions.
- From my interactions, EA folks are some of the smartest and most prosocial people I have met.
- They are some of the densest high trust groups I’ve found.
- I’ve made a lot of friends, even though we dont agree on many things.
- AFAIK there isnt a single EA high command. But following the paper trail gives you a rough idea of who is pulling the strings.
- Like other institutions, EA institutions suffer from power seeking and moral mazes.
- Being in positions of power, capital, and influence has made the stakes higher.
- The baseline risk of fumbling with such stakes is high enough that idt being an EA affects it much.
- The closest analogy is a destroyer vs a yacht trying to cross a vortex. One needs to be careful in assigning causality to the behaviour of both vessels.
- But you could ask: why would you steer towards a vortex if you knew it was on the way? Which is a sensible position.
- I think the usual argument involves massaging utility functions and probability distributions until you get Pascal-wagered into taking the bet.
- People and institutions coevolve, and its hard to separate them. But I want to separate the role from the individual who is instantiating it.
- This reduces the agency placed on the individual, but thats how our institutions are structured given the power levels.
- Hence the idea of gaining power as a means to do impactful things.
- But it sidelines the pitfalls of amassing power for its own sake.
So how can you remain sane?
- Dont be forced to groupthink or fit in.
- Maintain financial autonomy.
- People dont realise how much of their epistemics is affected when their career or livelihood is at stake.
- Speak up if you notice grifters or status seekers.
- The culture of institutions changes through distillation.
- Look at actions over words.
- EAs are good at writing and coming up with arguments, so its easy to get yourself confused.
- When in doubt, take a step back, forget all the reasoning, and look at the actions.
- Given how much consequentialist reasoning there is in EA, I find this useful for avoiding motivated reasoning.
- Take your own time to question assumptions. Dont take everything you read for granted.
- Remember that the questions are privileged.
How is EA related to AI safety?
- In the earlier EA spaces I encountered, near term causes such as global health and animal advocacy were more prominent.
- AI safety was one of the cause areas. Routes included an ML PhD or working on agent foundations at MIRI.
- AI safety felt like a fringe idea back then, but there was ongoing work on alignment.
- Iterated amplification and debate were being developed before ChatGPT. ELK came in 2021. RLHF was another strand of work.
- As recently as 2022, before ChatGPT, longtermism was a major focus of EA discussion.
- After ChatGPT, it felt like the spaces I was in pivoted heavily towards AI risk.
- The history is longer than that, though. 80,000 Hours ranked AI risk as its top problem from 2016, and narrowed its strategic focus in 2025.
- Its current strategy focuses on risks and opportunities from advanced AI.
- EA work on global health and animal welfare continues too.
- Open Philanthropy has funded academics working on AI safety since well before the 2020s. Its 2017 grants already included academic AI safety research.
- MIRI’s history goes back to 2000, with a shift towards alignment around 2003. FLI was founded in 2014.
- Wealthy donors have funded large parts of this ecosystem.
- Dustin Moskovitz, a Facebook cofounder, and Cari Tuna established Good Ventures. It became the main philanthropic partner behind what is now Coefficient Giving.
- Jaan Tallinn, a Skype cofounder, has supported FLI, FHI, and MIRI. FLI’s 2015 conference biography describes this funding.
Related: How do we understand the current AI safety landscape?.
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